People On This Board Who Don't Understand Opinion

[Greg]

This is targetted at no-one particular, can I just make this clear. It's all water off a duck's back to me as I have the maturity to understand that just because I love Girls Aloud and Joss Stone it doesn't mean that I have to kill verbally abuse anyone who bad mouths them.

Now I understand that forums like this were made in order for people to voice their opinions and debate them etc. but sometimes the 'debates' just get predictable, tedious and annoying. Examples: All the S&M trolls, The McFly Vs Busted arguements that started in every thread about either group a few months ago and the Will Vs Gareth arguements. It's just unnecessary.

I also don't appreciate the constant ripping Dr Bastard recieves. He probably doesn't give a flying toss, and to be honest neither would I. But Dr Bastard doesn't (normally) say things just to rile people, he says things because they are HIS opinion, and his opinion is worth just as much as anyone elses, even if doesn't like Rachel and Geri (and countless others). And if indeed he does do it just to rile people, it's because you're all stupid enough to react and thus, give the reaction that he wants. Of course I could be wrong - but that's how I see it - that's my opinion.

I just needed to get this off my chest. Granted that 75+% of the board can allow their favourite artists to take a ripping and either ignore it or 'argue' their point maturely without getting stupid but it's that select few that can't that really get on my tits.

Anyways....

[drbastard]

Greg. If I were gay I would marry you!

Anyway, I don't give a flying f*8k what some spotty little student thinks of me, they should go and have a sh*g (Jester...that means you) and deal with the fact they'll never fuck Rachel Stevens ever.

She's sh*te. She'll never get a #1. Ever. Move on and embrace a good pop group. Mania for instance...cool sassy pop and they don't need men to tell them what to do. As Greg says, I can say what I like and I WILL have my opinion as you all will too.

[Mike]

Amen, sister. The whole Will-Gareth thing is getting exceptionally tedious. It's knocking on for three years since Pop Idol, and the trolls just won't let it lie. For my part, I think one of them is very talented, and the other isn't. If one of them ceased to exist, my opinion of the other would not move an inch. They are separate entities. Get the fuck over it.

If Dr Bastard riles people who are so impenetrably thick as to fall into the trap every single time, then good luck to him I say.

Enough with the madness, and let's not see the return of 'well that's just your opinion'. Why? Because opinions are like arseholes. Everyone's got one, and they're usually full of shit.

[Greg]

thisisnotatest said:

Enough with the madness, and let's not see the return of 'well that's just your opinion'. Why? Because opinions are like arseholes. Everyone's got one, and they're usually full of shit.

No, no, no. I hope that wasn't what people thought I was getting at. I was trying to say everyone's entitled to an opinion, there is no fact in a discussion otherwise it wouldn't be a discussion. I'm trying to say that conflicting opinions to yours mean just as much as the ones you agree with.

[Mike]

Easy Greg, I didn't mean you. When I first joined the board, there were a lot of 'it's just your opinion' type comments flying around, a trend which seems to have died out. I'm just hoping it stays that way.

Off topic - what's supposed to be in your avatar? I can only see a red cross thing, and the text intrigues me.

[Greg]

thisisnotatest said:

Off topic - what's supposed to be in your avatar? I can only see a red cross thing, and the text intrigues me.

It's Joss of course.

And yes, I just wanted to clarify that that was not what I was implying.

[max]

i cant see it either, and i wish i could as i quite fancy her like Joss's music.

[flufff]

I think there needs to be more respect for genuine opinion too - positive and negative. I can't say I always like it when someone says something nasty about the people I like, and I bet we're all guilty of being over-protective, but so long as we give reasons for why we think what we think it's fine. Disagreeing with an opinion is an important part of respecting that we have different opinions and explaining why we disagree is why we bother with a discussion board in the first place.

Anyone who puts forward an opinion therefore has to expect to have their opinion scrutinised, but that doesn't mean they should be picked on for it.

I only get annoyed at the people who come on with an agenda and are deliberately negative about particular artists because at some point in time they've been pitched against their own favourite. The motives for their opinions are not genuine and it's not enough for them to be able to say they don't like so and so, they want to stop as many people as possible from liking them too, which is pretty bloody sad. It's the sort of thing that's gone on forever, from when Duran, Duran fans would taught the Spandau fans (Stones vs Beatles even?) so it won't go away and low-level rivalry and comparison can be interesting and even fun, but it seems to have got a lot worse recently and not fun at all and I don't see why I should give them any respect.

So my comment is don't just respect that people are entitled to hate the people you like, but also to respect that people like the ones you don't and so you don't need to devote quite so much effort into making them feel like shit or stopping anyone else from confessing to liking their new single.

[PushTheBuena]

Dr Bastard is a twisted madman who is quite funny(though the whole Geri/Rachel obsession is bordering on unhealthy). Just ignore the 'vs' threads. You can smell them a mile off- I don't even bother looking at long threads with "Gareth", "Will", "Busted", or "McFly" in the title because you know it'll all have turned to celebrity deathmatch lameness.

[MilkMonitor]

Right you are, Greg. The worst people (mentioning no names of course) are those who preach about being entitled to their opinion whilst simultaneously implying that theirs is the correct one and barking at anyone who thinks differently.

Eeek, that sounds bad. I'm not talking about you Greg, just a couple of people I've noticed with that attitude.

Someone get me a shovel?

[Greg]

Milk said:

Right you are, Greg. The worst people (mentioning no names of course) are those who preach about being entitled to their opinion whilst simultaneously implying that theirs is the correct one and barking at anyone who thinks differently.

Eeek, that sounds bad. I'm not talking about you Greg, just a couple of people I've noticed with that attitude.

Someone get me a shovel?

Do I do that? Honestly?

[flufff]

Let the paranoia begin. That happened why I started the 'people who come on her that don't like pop' thread. Some people are plain paranoid while others assumed it was about anyone who was ever critical, which is wasn't.

With the exception of the paranoid and self-confessed meanies, most people will think they are far more considerate of other people's opinions than others are to them. That's human nature. I've lost count of the number of times on all different sites where someone comes out with the 'I'm entitled to my opinion, how dare you tell me otherwise' line when all that happened was the other person gave their opinion back again, that happened to be different and normally better articulated. Arguing your case well constitutes bullying in some places because it's unfair on the stupid. If you explain why you disagree it's fine, so long as you at least try to come up with some decent arguements, not 'they smell', 'they're crap', 'you smell' 'they are the most talented band in the world EVA' etc. If you think someone has made a sweeping generalisation feel free to explain why it doesn't apply, or if you think someone is being hypocritical when damning the people they already didn't like when they've done something that wouldn't matter if it was anyone else, then say so.

If it's your favourite popstar the odds are you know more about them than everyone else, so share those facts and shed some light on the tabloid myths if relevant, just don't expect everyone to turn around and become massive fans.

Or ignore it. Sometimes it's easier, but we are all human and we wouldn't be here if we didn't care and caring sometimes makes you go off on one.

[Lovebomb]

Sigh, I thought we'd been through this dozens of times.

Everyone understands opinions. Whether something is somebody's opinion or not doesn't need to be said, we know! The fact your name is to the left of the thing you've just typed automatically tells everyone that.

The trolls or whatever you want to call them problem isn't they don't understand opinions, they just disagree with them and don't have the smarts or maturity to argue a point without resorting to name calling.

It's also interesting you refer to Dr Bastard whose arguments, whatever the motives may be (be they geniune, to rile or most likely a bit of both) have often descended into 'the only people who like so and so are fat...gay...' or whatever term he wants to use to insult a set of people who like someone he doesn't'. Is that showing respect for opinion? His earlier comment in this very thread par example, how is that any different or respectful to the people who disagree with his opinions than the Sam and Mark fans who go 'Hey stupid, anyone who doesn't like them is a stupid dickhead, stupid!!!', except for the fact Dr B's, is more articulate and funnier. The guy has strong (and often extremely venomous) opinions so he should expect strong reactions back and if he can't take them (which he obviously can) then maybe he shouldn't be making extreme comments about others ( be it about a famous person or not, that's irrelevent, an insult is an insult and a person is a person).

Though the great thing about Dr B is he doesn't resort to the 'Well that's my opinion, respect it' style whinging. That is what is actually the most irritating thing ever and the one thing that destroys any healthy discussion. When people say ' you don't understand I have an opinion and am entitled to say it' it's no worse than those who say 'shut up you idiot', they both smack of the person not liking the fact that someone disagrees with them and not having the smarts to argue a proper point of view back.

[gabbygoo]

Well said Greg, excellent points and I am not being my normal paranoid self and thinking you meant me. I am learning

As for Dr Bastard I always took his comments as tongue in cheek, they always make me laugh

Oh My Gawd you mean he is serious (lots of puntuaction marks)

[Dudie]

I don't know if there is a trend towards whatever you are criticising on here because I haven't been on long enough to really tell. I liked it on here when I first had a look because it's kind of irreverent (I'm a mad fan of Jonathan Ross and am sure he might post on here because it's his sort of place) and, while having my favourites, I don't need the kind of spooky shit spouted on the 'devoted' fan boards I've had a look at. Quite apart from the fact that I think my mother goes on them. As long as people concentrate on the performance, the music and the looks (which, as a looks fascist, is important in my opinion) I couldn't give a flying fuck.

Dr Bastard would be devastated if people didn't react because that's his raison d'être. He'd much rather be despised than ignored, I'm sure.

[elmsyrup]

Dudie said:

(I'm a mad fan of Jonathan Ross and am sure he might post on here because it's his sort of place)

He knows fuck all about music though, so probably not.

[drbastard]

gabbygoo said:

Well said Greg, excellent points and I am not being my normal paranoid self and thinking you meant me. I am learning

As for Dr Bastard I always took his comments as tongue in cheek, they always make me laugh

Oh My Gawd you mean he is serious (lots of puntuaction marks)

No! You are all far too clever for your own good and I can see you will all have to be stopped before you blab to the others.

(Removes syringe from his pocket)

[flufff]

It's annoying when it's the same old arguement in every thread, and it's confrontational rather than discursive and no new points are made. It's not an interesting addition in a thread about Will or Gareth to have people say they've always prefered that one to the other, or that the other is better than that one. Talk about the person in the thread please and if you cannot do it without mentioning the other you need to think about why you like the one you like in the first place.

I also think that there is a big difference between arguing an opinion and challenging a statement which is an assumed fact. In that case it's exceedingly annoying when people say it's their opinion and should be respected. Some statements such as 'they are shite' are clearly opinion even though it's said as fact, but if someone says 'they did this', or even 'they always mime' it deserves to be challenged if you think they didn't do that or they don't always mime or it was a rumour created by those pesky tabloids that you have reason to believe is crap.

[Dudie]

elmsyrup said:

He knows fuck all about music though, so probably not.

He knows a hell of a lot about music, but just not my sort of music. He's in a David Bowey time warp. I turn the tele off when it comes to the ednd and the band / artist comes onbecause I know they are going to be some laddish dirgey crap. With his radio show it's harder to do but I dry my hair in between the talking bit, although just occasionally he plays something good.

[MilkMonitor]

flufff said:

Some statements such as 'they are shite' are clearly opinion even though it's said as fact

But on the same note, someone might say it as 'they are shite' but still consider it an opinion. It's a bit wanky to keep putting 'in my opinion' before it. Don't read too much into it. If I say Scooch were fucking awful, I don't mean 'Scooch were fucking awful, that is a fact, not an opinion, so nothing you say counts because it is a fact'. I know it's an opinion, you know it's an opinion, so crying about the way it is said is a bit pointless.

[Keaty]

Obviously it is a problem when people refuse to accept each other's opinions, but it's what makes for interesting debate - at least when the posters involved are intelligent and articulate. Otherwise it just turns into a childish slanging match when not much at all is put across. I felt rather affronted in another thread when I challenged an opinion, to be answered with "What the fuck? Ever so slightly unnecessary, but if the poster can back it up and the two are mature enough to understand each other, then Popjustice can roll along merrily as it has done before.

[flufff]

Milk said:

But on the same note, someone might say it as 'they are shite' but still consider it an opinion. It's a bit wanky to keep putting 'in my opinion' before it. Don't read too much into it.

That's what I was trying to say. I meant no matter how someone says something like that, qualified with 'my opinion is' or not and even if they say FACT afterwards, it is still obviously their opinion and should be treated as such.

A lot of people say soandso can't sing, when most times they should be saying 'I don't like their voice', but more often than not it's not worth worrying about, because the people who say that they love someone with very questionable vocal ability. I've had a lot of laughs at people who think Geri/Rachel/LSL/Holly/Jenny Frost are fantastic, but waste no time slagging off the other ones for not being able to sing. It used to drive me barmy, but I've learnt it's just one of those things, especially as there are lots of great singers out there who I don't like. Just because I'm happy to admit singers I don't much like have talent I know loads of people couldn't care less and nice as it is, I don't think getting someone to admit someone you like can sing is the most important thing around here.

[drbastard]

Or people slagging boybands and then loving Atomic Kitten...who stink of rancid p*ss which mainly comes from Jenny.

[Dudie]

Dr said:

Or people slagging boybands and then loving Atomic Kitten...who stink of rancid p*ss which mainly comes from Jenny.

Incontinence is the least of their problems. They can always wear those panty things -forgot what they're called--problem solved.

[Scruffy]

I'm glad you posted this Greg because I agree with you. I'll admit to having told DrB to shut the fuck up on occasion but that's only when he's said his "Holly/Rachel/Insert Vacuous Pop Tart Name Here" is crap rant for the seven billionth time. Apart from that I find some of his stuff really funny and some of it not but he's entitled to it cuz "it's his opinion". I think that if we stick to the things Greg laid down in his post then this board would be much better (and it's pretty great already)

[drbastard]

[Ms Pouty McPout Pout]

I totally agree with all that's been said....

I constantly get abuse wherever I go for loving Atomic Kitten and Blue. I don't understand why people just can't mind their own business and let me listen to the music I love.

Once I was listening to Atomic Kitten on a discman at the bus stop and the girls that were standing near me could hear it through my headphones. They started saying I had no taste in music and that I was stupid for liking Atomic Kitten. I know they're entitled to their opinion, but they were doing a personal insult on me for liking Atomic Kitten.... I was really upset....

[drbastard]

I know that situation so well. These girls were sitting on the bus one day opposite me discussing 'the merits of emo music and the depth it has compared to other music' when I started kicking the back of their chairs. My sister was with me so they didn't dare say anything to me or they would get a beating.

Similar to a Geri Halliwell fan I used to work with, I made his life misery for listening to her. I used to pour Primola cheese into his locker in retribution for his crap taste.

[PushTheBuena]

Ms said:

I totally agree with all that's been said....

I constantly get abuse wherever I go for loving Atomic Kitten and Blue.

And so you bloody well should! Instant karma.

I am of course joking. Disgusting, stick up for yourself, and etcetera. But I love giving people dirty looks when they're listening to crap music on public transport. It amuses me. I once heard someone listening to the Stereophonics! In public! And people bleat about the kevs...

[jester1436]

Opinion is a wonderful thing. There is that lame little saying I recall from middle school - "Opinions are like assholes, we all have them and they all stink".

I think Dr Bastard would be more amusing if he wasn't saying the same bollocks every single time. His act has grown stale for me rather quickly, yet he still delights in bashing the same celebrities in his "unique" way over and over. Get a new shtick is what I have to say there.