'Some bands HAVE to mine on TV'

[Electrobix]

I never understood this. Now, I'm not against miming, only when it's completely pointless (see Mariah miming on Ant and Dec when all she did was shuffle about a bit).

I think it was S Club 7 who said that some TV shows make artists mime because of whatever technical reason.

I don't get it though. On most shows I've seen, not all artists mime. In any one show, some of the acts mime but there's a handful that don't/ Surely if certain bands/artists have to mime for technical reasons, then why aren't all bands appearing on that show made to mime? I can understand when the artist is dancing (although Justin and Beyonce do pretty complicated dance moves yet manage to sing at least some of the time) but still.

I'm sure there is a good reason but as far as I can see the only technical reason TOTP/CD:UK/Popworld/etc give to artists is 'you can't sing'.

So, basically, what 'technical reasons' are there that means some artists can't sing live?

[SamB]

I would *guess* that for artists such as S Club 7, it's much harder to do soundchecks and get the mixing right - the TOTP sound system probably isn't fantastic, and there would be serious time constraints too - which isn't the same for solo artists, when only one vocal has to be mixed.

[Robbing the Dezan]

For miming, all you need is a microphone (that doesn't even have to be real), and the single on CD. Someone presses play on the CD, the artist mimes away. Easy

For live vocals, you need real microphones, sound mixing deck things, etc.
When you have seven people singing live, the different vocal levels need to be balanced (e.g. the lead would be louder than the backers). With groups like S Club they often take turns singing the lead, i.e., Jo might sing the first verse, then Rachel the second. This means Jo and Rachel's microphone levels would have to be altered from when she is singing lead, to when she is singing as part of the ensemble.

Instruments also have to be set at the right volume and stuff.

Also to hear themselves and pitch, the singers need ear-pieces, which play back the sound to them (so they can hear over the audience). If the ear pieces are off, or too low, they can't pitch and you get awefull off key singing.

Certain TV shows that don't usually have singer on, usually make them mime, as they don't have the equipment.

[LauraKeane]

Also, a lot of programmes (CD:UK especially) charge the artists for the cost incurred in setting up all the 'live' equipment. I know one artist who refused to pay the £30,000 that CD:UK said it would cost him to perform live...despite the fact that he hates miming. To get round this problem, most of the time, only the lead singer's microphone will be live and the backing track and bv's will be on a tape (like Feeder's performance on Saturday).

[Jon]

LauraKeane said:

(like Feeder's performance on Saturday).

I've seen Ash, Travis and Kasabian perform with that set-up there. But Emma Bunton completely live. Though it was just acoustic instruments.

I don't see how it would cost 30 grand to get a decent live sound.

[charliebustedrules]

I wouldn't mind get £30000 though....

[HongKongSuperFoo]

Pretty sure that New Order always play live and won't appear if they can't (how "live" you can be if you're new order is a different question. presumably if you have someone triggering the drum machine, samplers & sequencers then it counts as live).

It may be that some bands use "technical requirements" as an excuse when what they really mean is "not actually able to sing this song (or at all)"" see Milli Vanilli, Madonna, Britney, Victoria Beckham etc. etc. etc.

[Tim]

I remember the Pet Shop Boys performed at the Brit Awards with a group of miners.
They sang live.

[flufff]

I think it depends on the scale of the tv show and performance and how busy (or talented, or how much record company backing) the artist has.

Clearly some people sing live on CDUK and some don't and it's not just down to who can or cannot sing live. Theoretically getting everyone to sing live should be a good thing, but if the whole line-up were to sing live and needed a sound-check for multiple microphones and instruments it would be a logistical nightmare, so they are probably quite keen for the live singing to be limited to a few. Popstars are also notoriously short of time, and soundchecks can become a luxury not all artists can afford, and it ends up being something that singers have to demand of their management or tv shows rather than the other way around. Hence, no excuses for someone like Mariah, who can demand what she likes and doesn't do tv shows where they can't afford a sound-man.

With respect to CDUK charging 30 grand. This seems a bit steep, but it might be their costs for doing a special recording with a dedicated audience where the whole band is live and they do a mini-gig etc.

[andrea69]

Also it must be difficult to do a vigorous dance routine whilsy singing live-which makes for better TV than someone just standing there.

[beNcooKe]

HongKongSuperFoo said:

(how "live" you can be if you're new order is a different question. presumably if you have someone triggering the drum machine, samplers & sequencers then it counts as live).

Hmm someone needs to be a litle more educated about electronic music...

[HongKongSuperFoo]

beNcooKe said:

Hmm someone needs to be a litle more educated about electronic music...

Not really all that much more educated though - bands like new order are heavily reliant on samples, drum machines & sequences - these are triggered (usually by gillian the keyboard player but she's not around all that much these days), if they're triggered then they're not being played therefore they're not "live" sounds but a recording .

Or did you think that the drummer was really really good and was physically able to play blue monday?

ps. hope i'm not bursting any bubbles but andrew ridgelely was miming when wham played live too!!

[beNcooKe]

That wasnt meant in too much of a nasty way. But you do often get people looking at groups like new order and others using synths and drum machines and picking at what is truely 'live' and what isnt by whether every explicit beat of a drum is played by someones hands. That school of thought always bothered me, where do these types of people put DJs in their 'extensive knowlege' of live music?!

I did a few (very amateur) gigs at local rock pubs up north and for some people youd think it was the first time they'd seen a drum machine or a synth, cue questions and accusations from a small percentage of the audience...

Of course to look at it on the face of it many parts arent 'live' at all in the traditional sense are they but the triggering of loops and patterns is generally accepted as how those particular musicians play.

I read a really good comment by Gary Numan on miming and the use of technology for the live sound when trying to recreate the original and he raises some very good points about the depth of sound you want to make especially what he says about the vocals.

www.numan.co.uk/clouds/interview.html question 2 i think.

[Mr Subways]

I think it's more common to see rock bands/instrument bands miming now, like Feeder, Faders, Thrills, Garbage, Embrace etc because they can't play thier instruments on TOTP, CD:UK or whatever. You hardly ever see acts with instruments playing them, and even when a solo artist has a band, like Natasha Bedingfield or Melanie C, the band are hardly ever playing.

[Dudie]

I'm a pianist and some demented relative of mine bought me an electronic organ for my 18th birthday, thinking I would love it. I could go out and pour myself a stiff drink (seeing as I was 18 and finally allowed to get ratted) and no-one knew that I'd left the room.

Don't know whether this contributes to this thread but what the fuck.

Yeah but no but ... there are certain songs and sounds that are a lot easier to reproduce live than others. This doesn't make them any less worthy but certain artists and artists' fans seem to like to make out that it does to give themselves a feeling of superiority.

To them I say fuck off.

[andy87]

I have heard that Record companies make their artists sing live because they want the public to hear the actual single properly as they will do when they buy it rather than hearing the artist sing live. Then once the single is released the artist is free to sing that song live as much as they want.

[Mr Subways]

andy87 said:

I have heard that Record companies make their artists sing live because they want the public to hear the actual single properly as they will do when they buy it rather than hearing the artist sing live. Then once the single is released the artist is free to sing that song live as much as they want.

..ala Jamelia!

[Mikka]

Mr said:

..ala Jamelia!

That's shit! She only mimes cos she's feeling out of tune/lazy! She can sing live, but she's not exactly sensational.

I love artists like Bev Knight who always sing amazingly live, but she has got more talent in her little finger than most of the UK chart acts put together!

[Mr Subways]

Mikka said:

That's shit! She only mimes cos she's feeling out of tune/lazy! She can sing live, but she's not exactly sensational.

Why does she mime on all TV shows before release, and then do most performances after release live then?

[tricolore]

beNcooKe said:

That wasnt meant in too much of a nasty way. But you do often get people looking at groups like new order and others using synths and drum machines and picking at what is truely 'live' and what isnt by whether every explicit beat of a drum is played by someones hands. That school of thought always bothered me, where do these types of people put DJs in their 'extensive knowlege' of live music?!

I did a few (very amateur) gigs at local rock pubs up north and for some people youd think it was the first time they'd seen a drum machine or a synth, cue questions and accusations from a small percentage of the audience...

Of course to look at it on the face of it many parts arent 'live' at all in the traditional sense are they but the triggering of loops and patterns is generally accepted as how those particular musicians play.

I read a really good comment by Gary Numan on miming and the use of technology for the live sound when trying to recreate the original and he raises some very good points about the depth of sound you want to make especially what he says about the vocals.

www.numan.co.uk/clouds/interview.html question 2 i think.

Thanks for that, was very interesting to read. I remember Travis performing 'Sing' on TOTP a couple of years ago, and part of the act was a food fight, fran was singing live but he got hit in the face with a lot of food and was unable to sing for a few seconds but there was stil pre-recorded vocals playing along to make it sound stronger. My first reaction was 'OH MY GOD.. HES MIMING' but then i thought, Nah i'd probably do that too.

[Tim]

The Cowboy Junkies have a song called "Mining For Gold". I don't know if they ever perfomed it live on TV though.

[linus]

Tim, I don't think people seem to have noticed the faux pas in the title of this thread! (I did!)

[Busted-Obsessive]

Linus said:

Tim, I don't think people seem to have noticed the faux pas in the title of this thread! (I did!)

I did also - I even looked it up in the dictionary to see if it was some obscure verb I never heard of.

but sometime it not a totally bad thing that they mime on TV - you're not exactly paying to watch them. It's only if they mime live (in concert) that I have more of a problem with, because you have paid to see them and they should etc, etc.

[Rina50]

Not all singers/groups mime on Top Of The Pops and Popworld. For example Backstreet Boys didn't mime on Top of The Pops. Nick Carter when he did solo performed on Top Of The Pops and Popworld live. Maroon 5 sang live, Darren Hayes sang live. Some singers/groups always want to find excuse to mime,

Rina

Electrobix said:

I never understood this. Now, I'm not against miming, only when it's completely pointless (see Mariah miming on Ant and Dec when all she did was shuffle about a bit).

I think it was S Club 7 who said that some TV shows make artists mime because of whatever technical reason.

I don't get it though. On most shows I've seen, not all artists mime. In any one show, some of the acts mime but there's a handful that don't/ Surely if certain bands/artists have to mime for technical reasons, then why aren't all bands appearing on that show made to mime? I can understand when the artist is dancing (although Justin and Beyonce do pretty complicated dance moves yet manage to sing at least some of the time) but still.

I'm sure there is a good reason but as far as I can see the only technical reason TOTP/CD:UK/Popworld/etc give to artists is 'you can't sing'.

So, basically, what 'technical reasons' are there that means some artists can't sing live?