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Post by Jen on Jun 22, 2004 8:40:04 GMT -5
This might also be a good time to point out that one of our most regular posters seldom has a good word to say about the Aloud. No-one (except Jen, sometimes) bothers leaping on him. That sounded really bad. Oh well, never mind. It did! I didn't realise I jump on anyone on pj- I'm not that energetic. Who were you talking about? I like all the nice things people have said here about me, thank you very much. I just basically don't see the point in getting all defensive and angry at people for not liking them. I know why I like them, and thats all that matters to me. We are all going to disagree on who we like and don't- thats what makes the board interesting. Oh and I have to disagree Emma, I really liked their last single. I know they can do better though. And I do think the embarrasing humour on totps has far more to do with the show, then the boys themselves.
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allanc
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Post by allanc on Jun 22, 2004 12:00:18 GMT -5
I do like the music Sam and Mark make, I just don't like Mark and therefore wish Sam wasn't associated with him as he could have been amazing if it wasn't for Mark. Sam has a great voice, and it's quite distinctive. Mark is blander than Westlife, Atomic Kitten, D-Side (circa Real World), Bellefire and One True Voice all rolled into one. I wish Sam would realize how much damage he is doing to his career by letting Mark drag him further and further down into cheesy crap hell. Although he does look like he's having fun, and, I suppose, that's all that matters.
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Post by dulcinea on Jun 22, 2004 14:06:51 GMT -5
I've just found this thread - this subject seems to come around regularly.
There seems to be some confusion as to whether Sam and Mark still exist. A couple of the upcoming Summer Roadshows have deleted them from their artists lists. So maybe, for those who so dislike them (or want to slap them), the end of this particular form of masochism is in sight.
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Post by dulcinea on Jun 22, 2004 14:13:09 GMT -5
Although he does look like he's having fun, and, I suppose, that's all that matters. Well, I suppose that depends on whether he wants a career, or a few months of the "high" life. "Cheesy crap" may not make for longevity in the business, though it does seem to work for an inordinate length of time for some people.
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Post by gabbygoo on Jun 22, 2004 14:24:59 GMT -5
I know I should have more sense and leave a Sam and Mark thread well alone. But I am trying very hard to fit in here . I actually love the twisted humour
As for this thread, what the hell are 19 playing at. I didn't spend good telephone money on Sam Nixon to be come part of the next comedy duo. This guy ( I don't care what he looks like but at my age he shouldn't be getting my hormones going but he does) has an amazing voice which when he given the right material to sing is mind blowing. i know this is subjective but there are too many people who feel exactly the same way for it just to be a whim on my part.
Cast your mind back to pop idol big band week and his vocally faultless performance of Mr Bojangles, and this was a guy aged 17 so can only improve.
Sorry am getting carried away and waxing lyrically to the masses (mainly unconverted ones too)
Just one question is it the cheesy duo you hate or Mark?
You can see I am too blinkered to ask if you hate Sam too? Surely you guys with your terrific music taste cannot deny that with the right song he is musically very gifted
Thanks for reading my long tirade
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allanc
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Post by allanc on Jun 22, 2004 14:44:47 GMT -5
Just one question is it the cheesy duo you hate or Mark? Mark.
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Post by flufff on Jun 23, 2004 2:51:01 GMT -5
There seems to be some confusion as to whether Sam and Mark still exist. A couple of the upcoming Summer Roadshows have deleted them from their artists lists. They did Live and Loud at the weekend and were on TOTP Saturday dressed as gardeners, so I think 19 haven't abandoned them yet, but I do think they are going to have a rethink before they release anything new. They need to have a rethink. I don't hate Sam or Mark or even Sam and Mark. I find Mark very boring as a performer and vocalist. Sam is more intersting and would do better on his own with the right material, but I'm not convinced he is good enough. He can sing and has talent and is far better than many, but he came from Pop Idol which is a talent show and if you come from one of those you need to be much better than average. Sam does seem happy doing what he's doing and that works against him. People don't want to see happy popstars being cheeky chappies churning out nice, catchy, if not remarkable pop songs.
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Post by dulcinea on Jun 23, 2004 3:41:30 GMT -5
They need to have a rethink. Sam does seem happy doing what he's doing and that works against him. People don't want to see happy popstars being cheeky chappies churning out nice, catchy, if not remarkable pop songs. The material is certainly a hindrance, bland, standard and uninteresting. In addition, angst, or the appearance of rebellion or criminality certainly seems to sell much better. Shame really, for us all to reward misery so much more effectively. However, some more time in the industry will no doubt deal with Sam's happy, positive approach. And then we can all be satisfied.
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Post by MilkMonitor on Jun 23, 2004 4:15:28 GMT -5
Is there really a gap in the market for Sam to go solo? His fans say he does Bon Jovi/Beatles-type rocky numbers. Kids don't want to hear Beatles-lite pap, if they did they'd listen to the real (and better) thing. The boy rocker route is never that successful commercially. There's Jason Mraz and Ryan Adams, but they don't appeal to the teeny market, which Sam does. He has the teen idol looks but his choice of music wouldn't get him very far. 95% of his fans are under 16 and most of them won't want to hear inoffensive, acoustic guitar-led songs (although they will undoubtedly claim they are the best songs lyk eva cuz sam iz well fit innit). What appeals to the majority Sam's fanbase is pop (think Blue and Westlife) and a bit of the hip-hop/r'n'b/rap stuff from America. I'm not speaking for all average girls in their early teens, but most of them would put Blue and Westlife down as their favourite artists as opposed to Ryan Adams, would they not?
This is, of course, my opinion, but I think it is safe to say that unless he can turn himself into a one-man Blue, he will almost certainly crash and burn.
Also, from the fans I have met/know offline and the ones I have encountered online, they are incredibly shallow. As we've established, emma50 really doesn't think much of the duo, Mark or their songs at all, yet still fiercely defends them and I doubt even she would deny that she wouldn't bother if Sam wasn't involved.
Mark is not a popstar, that is obvious to anyone, but it is unfair to say he is 'dragging Sam down' and 'tarnishing his image'. It's not like he's deliberately set out to ruin Sam's chances of a career (and as I said before, I doubt he could sustain one for very long anyway) and they clearly like each other. I find the 'Sam is cool bcuz he iz buff and Mark is just holding him back' attitude amongst S&M fans very hypocritical. It's quite sad that the majority of these people are blatantly only fans because of Sam and the minute the duo fails to deliver the blame is placed on Mark, even though it takes two to tango, so to speak.
If Sam had released With A Little Help... and TSHCYW on his own, the chart positions would have been more or less the same. Their situation just goes to show that whilst you can have the teen idol good looks and hordes of fans, the quality of the music still prevails. You need the whole package to be properly successful, Sam and Mark don't have it, as I've been saying all along.
Someone mentioned that they should be TV presenters (I think it might been Mr PJ?) and I agree. They have a lot of chemistry and this works well on screen. I'm not sure what kind of show would be ideal for them (Pop Idol is the obvious one but Ant and Dec won't be leaving that anytime soon I don't think). Thinking about it, CITV would be a good outlet for them, I think. Steady income for them, more viewers for CITV and they're still pretty famous.
This is all my opinion and such, but I really think that rather than kicking Mark out and ending his career, they should stay together but not in music.
Edit: That was really long, sorry! Well done to anyone who reads it all.
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Post by flufff on Jun 23, 2004 4:50:01 GMT -5
Gold star for me.
It's a tough call for them, because they can both sing well so it seems illogical that they ought to go into presenting, but I do think that's the best thing for them. Sam could get together with some friends, and form a band in his spare time. He's got a foot in the business now so he should be able to hook up with people who are decent musicians and they can work on sounds for fun or until they come up with something that might sell.
If he can stay in the business and in the public eye and have a fan following he'll get the chance to play odd gigs. I know, he can be the founder member of the new Stamford Amp for Saturday mornings on the BBC.
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Post by Storm on Jun 23, 2004 6:20:37 GMT -5
I agree. They should be TV presenters - they have great chemistry, but don't really think they're strong enough as a duo.
Sam couldve done well as a solo mini Busted, but to be honest, i think th emarket is so against reality TV at the moment, that he would have still found it difficult.
I still maintain that the only one from the show that could have had a successful, sustained career was Susanne. Quirky, a very indentifiable sense of sense of style both musically and image wise, and with the right type of appeal to attract a wide cross section of buyers. I could easily imagine her stuff being played on Radio 2 ala Katie Melua, and her quirkyness would have attracted style mags/r1.
Looks like it's too late now though........
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Jen
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Post by Jen on Jun 23, 2004 10:00:20 GMT -5
Also, from the fans I have met/know offline and the ones I have encountered online, they are incredibly shallow. As we've established, emma50 really doesn't think much of the duo, Mark or their songs at all, yet still fiercely defends them and I doubt even she would deny that she wouldn't bother if Sam wasn't involved. You made a lot of fair points in there Milk, but you know this isn't far. The Sam and Mark fan you know the best is me, and you know I'm not shallow when it comes to them. I like them for the whole package- not just because I find Sam attractive. There are plenty of popstars whom I don't find the least bit attractive, but still like as people, and the music they make. Oh- and whoever made that comment about Sam getting a band together, well he already has one. He was the lead singer and guitarist in "Fairview" for a fair few years, but they all went off to different colleges. I'm still surprised, learning about his musical backgrounds and interests that he went for Pop Idol, to be honest.
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Post by MilkMonitor on Jun 23, 2004 11:18:10 GMT -5
You made a lot of fair points in there Milk, but you know this isn't far. The Sam and Mark fan you know the best is me, and you know I'm not shallow when it comes to them. I like them for the whole package- not just because I find Sam attractive. There are plenty of popstars whom I don't find the least bit attractive, but still like as people, and the music they make. Jen, do you remember what a certain colour test said about you? You're proving it right.
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Post by dulcinea on Jun 23, 2004 11:43:15 GMT -5
Is Edit: That was really long, sorry! Well done to anyone who reads it all. It was long, and I will read anything. I have heard the songs that Sam did with his old band, and although hardly earthshattering they certainly show some promise. He at least has an interesting voice, which is more than can be said most artists in the charts. Possibly Sam would do better if not focused on the teenybopper market; with less bubblegum material probably suiting his voice much better. Whether he will now ever be able to remove that image may be in doubt. Or whether any record company would bother to assist him in trying. As to the Duo's choice in music, do we know what it is? I suspect the two people involved have somewhat different tastes, based on what they sang in Pop Idol, and, even if they have had much input (other than choosing from a limited selection) as the arrangements, and presentation and marketing have been so consistent, I would presume that the management company would be the best target for criticism. Interestingly, I do not think Sam and Mark have hordes of fans. Noisy possibly, but not large in number. I think it cruel to wish the fate of presenting children's TV on anyone - however annoying you find them
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Post by koolio on Jun 23, 2004 13:42:16 GMT -5
Well I must say that made intresting reading! I actually agree with some of the comments which a selected few poeple have made - shock horror. I don't agree with the people who just add supposedly "funny" comments to thier posts, what is the point?
As for the television presenters....I think they would make great Tv presenters...but I think they should carry on with the music as there is more to come.
Just wait for the album...I hope it can change peoples minds.
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Post by koolio on Jun 23, 2004 13:45:27 GMT -5
The difference between you and us, Emma, is that whilst we probably would leap on you for slagging GA off on here, we wouldn't bite your head off on the S&M board for doing it there, which is what you do to us. You notice that whilst you tell us off for even mentioning Sam and Mark, we don't go over to your board and tell you off when you bad-mouth Popjustice. I see your point but this isnt a Girls Aloud fansite, whereas you are implying it is, are you not? And I don't think she "slagged" popjustice.
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Post by Splendid* on Jun 23, 2004 18:58:28 GMT -5
The TV presenting avenue seems like a fall back option for a fair number of failed popstars and reality tv acts. But most of them are pretty shit at it and get dumped very quickly. Sam and Mark would no doubt go the same way as they are both incredibly dull and lack any kind of screen presence, ala Tim (I'm the host of totp but hang on I can't present) Kash.
It seems like doing the Butlins circuit or asking people: 'would you like fries with that'. Will ultimately prove to be S&M's true calling in life. As you might imagine I am mortified by this news.
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Post by MilkMonitor on Jun 24, 2004 1:05:24 GMT -5
I see your point but this isnt a Girls Aloud fansite, whereas you are implying it is, are you not? And I don't think she "slagged" popjustice. I'm not, I'm implying that PJ is very GA-friendly, because it is and if you come on here to moan about GA you'll be outnumbered, just as we would if we went on S&M's board to slag them off. I wasn't saying she slagged Popjustice off, but you can't deny that a lot of the posters on Sam and Mark's board do (Popjustice = 'the dark side', right?).
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si
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Post by si on Jun 24, 2004 1:10:35 GMT -5
Way to miss a whole page of reconciliatory posts, koolio.
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Post by flufff on Jun 24, 2004 3:16:21 GMT -5
I think it cruel to wish the fate of presenting children's TV on anyone - however annoying you find them I wasn't being cruel in my suggestion and I don't think they are annoying therefore should present kiddy tv. I think what appealed to the public and the kiddies during Pop Idol was not pop star personality, but tv personality personality. It's not to say one is better than the other, but they are different. It's a vast improvement on the standard 'flipping burgers' attitude that so many people have for any popstar who isn't having big hits any more. That's something I've always found offensive because it implies that's all the person is good for if they aren't a pop star. If the person wasn't going to go into a career in Burger King before the chance of a pop career came along, there is no reason to believe that's where they'll end up if it all goes wrong. Yes, lots of popstars are a bit thick, and many didn't get proper qualifications at school because they were too busy dreaming of becoming famous, but some are intelligent and did their homework and got decent GCSEs and A levels. Those ones can work in a call centre.
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Post by emma50 on Jun 24, 2004 4:08:56 GMT -5
I think it cruel to wish the fate of presenting children's TV on anyone - however annoying you find them I don't think TV presenting can be considered as being a cruel fate, and I don't find them annoying. Sam and Mark are obviously very good friends, and their experience from Pop Idol has obviously taught them a lot. Sam, Mark and Michelle have all been taught that despite millions of votes from fans, this does not, by any means, guarantee success in any future career in the music industry. However, I don't think they are to blame: I think the whole system would be a lot fairer if every household would only be allowed one vote, as this avoids people voting hundreds of times, only for the eventual winner to be left with the fact that, although they may have recieved millions of votes, they don't, if fact, have many fans who are willing to buy their records. (Although as the main aim of the programme is to create a profit, I can't see this ever realistically happening). It must be a huge blow to artists like Michelle, who are led to believe their popularity is a lot lower than they had been previously led to believed. There is an obvoius chemistry between Sam and Mark, and they do seem to work extremely well together. They also both seem to love attention, and are comfortable in front of cameras. I think they could now have much more sucessful careers as TV presenters than as a pop star duo, although to become a resepcted pair, they will have to chose the shows they wish to present carefully. I agree with what most of you have said, that they would probably be more suited towards children's entertainment, although I think, in the same way as Ant and Dec, they could work their way up the entertainment ladder, as it were. It's a shame that some people think that once a semi-famous star falls all they are relegated to is working in Burger King. However, I think it's a greater shame that when people such as Sam and Mark are put through the torture of having their dreams almost presented to them, and that they then have to watch them slip away before their very eyes. It must be a devastating blow and they are both, Sam especially, quite young to have to deal with it. It's almost ironic in a way, as it's their dreams that have led to their almost immediate downfall. I can only hope that they're given the chances they both deserve, and that they will both be happy however it turns out for them. Although they both have huge talent, I think the way they have become (semi) famous, and what they have done whilst they are in this position has sadly meant that a career as a pop star is no longer a possibility. I think the only scenario in which success (for Sam at least!) could be achieved is if Sam and Mark split, and Sam attempted a solo career. This could either be the best or worst decision of his life; he could succeed or he could flop. I think, due to the ages and tastes of the majority of his fanbase, and his style of singing, the latter is probably, unfortunately, more likely. Maybe TV presenting would be best for both of them; hopefully saving any further heartbreak, whilst allowing them to still be "famous", and enjoying what they do. *edit* sorry, just realised how long that was.
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Post by dulcinea on Jun 24, 2004 11:44:15 GMT -5
I don't think TV presenting can be considered as being a cruel fate, and I don't find them annoying. Neither do I, but I am prejudiced against children's TV, which was what I specified, as I regard much of it as inane and insulting to children. I do think that the whole concept of Pop Idol is comtemptable. The only person who has had any real success, sustained over time, is Will Young, and he, effectively, rejected that package and subsequently reinvented himself. It has saddened me to see people treated with such disrespect by a company that entices them with the anticipation of fulfilling their dreams and then makes use of them in such a cynical manner. It may well be the way of the industry, and for that matter society, but it does not make it any more edifying to watch. It would also be pleasant to have a choice in watching it. The wholesale participation by the general media in treating reality television as news makes that virtually impossible. As for Sam and Mark specifically, I have, I have to admit, found it fascinating to try and fathom what strategy has been employed in their marketing and promotion. So far, I am still mystified. The audience for Pop Idol is across all age ranges, and although they themselves are young, that does not necessailry preclude an artist from having a wider appeal. However, it would seem that this wider audience has been excluded and the focus put on the young teen market. But the presentation towards that has been strange, because a mum-friendly, boy next door image, is not what usually appeals very strongly. Cool tends to work and that has been missing. Given this, I believe the Sam and Mark concept (if there has ever been such a thing) is dead, If the two people concerned want celebrity then presenting is an option. The other option would be to go away and try again, focused on music. This would be more likely to suceed with Sam, as he would appear to have some musical ability. It would effectively be starting over and may not appeal to him. Otherwise, yes, they should just get on with their lives (and this is not a reference to burger bars - I too find that, along with children's television, a tedious and unimaginative way to insult somebody) and look back on this as an interesting experience. The most interesting question of all though, is why did Sam, someone who appears to have an interest in Rock (albeit soft) ever go in for Pop Idol in the first place. Presumably because he thought it would be a short cut, with a higher likelihood of sucess, and, if not yet, will probably be disillusioned very shortly. I hope not though; the number of people with any ability to appeal through the mediums of TV and live performance is very small and of those that do, its combination with a good voice and some feeling for music is rarer. There are few enough such people in the field to make it wise to reject any such potential out of hand. So much of the charts are depressing enough.
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Post by Malibu on Jun 25, 2004 5:15:38 GMT -5
Hi!! I find them quite obnoxious to say the least, Im embarresed to say find Sam attractive ( Oh god..why??) As for the other bloke wats his name again oh Mark he just wants to be young again, Hav u seen there video for their last flop?? I was unlucky enough to see it, Its painfull, they are driving a camper van roung the countryside and they go to a beach n attemp to pull some ladies but even they are not interested then at the the end the are singing beside a fire and thats it really!! I suggest the quit now before any more future embarresment,
x x x
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Post by gabbygoo on Jun 27, 2004 7:46:20 GMT -5
Hi!! I find them quite obnoxious to say the least, Im embarresed to say find Sam attractive ( Oh god..why??) As for the other bloke wats his name again oh Mark he just wants to be young again, Hav u seen there video for their last flop?? I was unlucky enough to see it, Its painfull, they are driving a camper van roung the countryside and they go to a beach n attemp to pull some ladies but even they are not interested then at the the end the are singing beside a fire and thats it really!! I suggest the quit now before any more future embarresment,
x x x Yes even me (a dedicated fan) hated that video but don't forget the boys will have had very little say in it. 19 getting their market research all wrong once again. It reminded me of an old Benny Hill clip But then they also got the song wrong. You can't give two boys who have very different singing styles a song which could be fine for a band and then not expect it to be bland. I am not in this for their personality but for their singing (especially Sam). Remind me again was Pop Idol called pop idol or personality idol. Wasn't the main point of the show to hear new talent singing live every week. The fact they had personalities too was just a bonus Oh and don't be embarassed to find Sam attractive there are a lot of us who do and many who are old enough to know better
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flufff
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Post by flufff on Jun 28, 2004 1:29:33 GMT -5
The show wasn't called "Good Singer: the search for people who can sing really well". Hopefully the pop bit is self-explanatory to the majority of regulars here, but Idol seems trickier. Being an Idol goes beyond being a good singer, it's about being able to command an audience, own the stage, be the stuff kiddies dream of snogging or growing up to be like. Being able to sing well without any of that makes you an ideal session singer.
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Post by gabbygoo on Jun 28, 2004 12:52:36 GMT -5
The show wasn't called "Good Singer: the search for people who can sing really well". Hopefully the pop bit is self-explanatory to the majority of regulars here, but Idol seems trickier. Being an Idol goes beyond being a good singer, it's about being able to command an audience, own the stage, be the stuff kiddies dream of snogging or growing up to be like. Being able to sing well without any of that makes you an ideal session singer. Fluff my god I agree with you for once although the next bit you won't agree with I truly believe Sam has all of that. Not only is he a good singer he has good stage presence and a personality and from my knowledge lots of young girls (and lots of mature ladies too) would like to snog the pants off him Simon Cowell (who many think talks rubbish, personally I think he knows what he is talking about) said from his first heat that he thought he was the most natually talented person in the whole competition. I believe if he was allowed to sing material that suits his singing style we could have got to see that. I am still hopefull that that day will come but don't hold my breath
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Post by emma50 on Jul 1, 2004 7:18:50 GMT -5
Anyway, they don't "obsess" over them, they just happen to like their music, and admire their talent.
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Post by emma50 on Jul 1, 2004 7:19:57 GMT -5
I wasn't saying she slagged Popjustice off, but you can't deny that a lot of the posters on Sam and Mark's board do (Popjustice = 'the dark side', right?). No, PJ isn't the "dark side". Not for me, anyway.
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Storm
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Post by Storm on Jul 2, 2004 4:18:51 GMT -5
I think they ruined it with the rubbish first single. the second was ok though - they have lots of pizazz on television, and I think there is a truth to sam's vocal, an honesty.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jul 2, 2004 4:53:35 GMT -5
Sorry but i have to admit that it was me that called Popjustice 'the dark-side' - didn't mean any offence by it Offence? Sounds like praise to me. I believe Sam and Mark will shock us all with the third single. That will be the platform from which they truly establish themselves as a trailblazing pop act.
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