Why Is Rachel So Sh*t?

[drbastard]

Let's take this thread to the Clowns Of Pop section. We have all been debating about Rachel recently and why she's not that good. The thing is, what went wrong? Okay so Some Girls may be #1 but that's a temporary fix, it won't solve the public apathy towards her in the long run and I doubt she'll have Madonna longevity.

The question is: why is Rachel so sh*t? Is it because her album bombed and nobody wants to back a loser? Is it the fact she likes to get Simon Fuller's approval for everything she does? Or are we getting sick of manufactured British pop and want more American sounding music?

I think she's just a boring bitchfucker to be honest.

[Storm]

Some Girls won't be number one. I don't even think it'll go top three. It's maybe a bit too clever for the teenyboppers.

Rachel is dull. I don't dislike her. I just really don't have an opinion on her. She's just there.

[tiddlywinks]

Rachael is embarrassing to watch attempting to mime while performing her pathetic dance routine.
Just caught her on some kiddy programme over the weekend , talk about cringworthy!

She should join Victoria Beckham and the pair of them should both just fade away, I mean they are so 'forgettable'.

[drbastard]

I can see what Storm means about her 'just being there'. After bombing with her album you'd think she'd maybe take the hint.

I also agree with Tiddly. I saw Rachel on Popworld and I just turned it over after two seconds. I swear she was looking out the corner of her eyes to watch if Simon Fuller was enjoying the show. You know, to get his approval.

Bitchfucker!

[tiddlywinks]

Couldn't agree with you more DB, Rachael is crap! Was that the show she was dancing on, my god I have seen more charisma in Mini Mouse.

Rachael, Victoria and all these other manufactured singers should all sod off!
Bring back real music, not tripe.

[Lovebomb]

tiddlywinks said:

Bring back real music, not tripe.

Define real music?

[Mike]

tiddlywinks said:

all these other manufactured singers should all sod off!
Bring back real music, not tripe.

I just threw up. The bill for cleaning my computer will be sent to you.

[tiddlywinks]

Zucchero
Led Zeppelin
Judy Tzuke
Joan Armatrading
Bob Dylan
The Doors
Simon and Garfunkle
Pink Floyd
INXS
Sting
Joni Mitchell
Cream
The Who
Jimi Hendrix
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Enya
Genisis
Elvis
Dire Straits
Simple Minds
U2
Madonna
Tracy Chapman



Hey Lovebomb, how are you doing.. I know that the above are only in my opinion, I also know that I live in a musical time warp... but you have to admit that they are UNFORGETTABLE CLASS.

Will any of todays musicians...live in the hearts and minds as those I have mentioned in my list....somehow I don't think so.
Todays music is no way in the same league in comparison with these superstars.

There are one or two bands and singers of today who I quite like, but not many i'm afraid,Coldplay being one of them.

[Mike]

tiddlywinks said:

Enya
Genisis
Dire Straits
Simple Minds

I just fell off my chair laughing and cracked a rib. The medical bill will be sent to you.

Your Popjustice experience is proving very expensive.

[si]

Enya?

Why not Norah Jones, Katie Melua and Jamie Cullum whil you're at it?

[tiddlywinks]

ha ha ha ....thisisnotatest

[klee]

Oh dear, Rachel Stevens seems to be one of those artists dreamt up by people who spend too much of their time in record company boardrooms. It must have looked like a good idea in principle: take most fancied member of one of the most successful tweenie bands of the last decade, cut her an album and watch the pennies roll in. They made an error, however.

The problem is that Rachel worked well in the S Club dynamic because her function was to be there, to be nice, to be drooled over and let the other band members do the lively stuff. She's not an inherently interesting person, she hasn't got much to say for herself and she doesn't have the kind of eight foot square corona of raw charisma that could make up for that. She may be a singer, but she is not a pop star in her own right.

But I still like Some Girls, dammit . . .

[si]

How much more interesting would she be if Rachel Stevens the popstar was more like Rachel Stevens the Rachel Green carbon copy from the S Club TV series?

Answer: much.

[Lovebomb]

tiddlywinks said:

Zucchero
Led Zeppelin
Judy Tzuke
Joan Armatrading
Bob Dylan
The Doors
Simon and Garfunkle
Pink Floyd
INXS
Sting
Joni Mitchell
Cream
The Who
Jimi Hendrix
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Enya
Genisis
Elvis
Dire Straits
Simple Minds
U2
Madonna
Tracy Chapman



Hey Lovebomb, how are you doing.. I know that the above are only in my opinion, I also know that I live in a musical time warp... but you have to admit that they are UNFORGETTABLE CLASS.

Will any of todays musicians...live in the hearts and minds as those I have mentioned in my list....somehow I don't think so.
Todays music is no way in the same league in comparison with these superstars.

There are one or two bands and singers of today who I quite like, but not many i'm afraid,Coldplay being one of them.

You still haven't answered my question. All you've listed is people/groups you like!

So I'll ask you again define real music?

[tiddlywinks]

A type of music which has evolved in the last 10 years, this type of music contains depth and thought and most of all talent. Not just screaming and loud guitars with a drum beat in the background, as most people presume, yes it has instruments, which is obviously much better than some girl singing over a beat which replays over and over throughout the song. Rock music is creative, imaginative and unpredictable.

Well we had the Rolling Stones, then came The Doors, Jimi Hendrix another pioneering black man who set the tone for the best rock of them all, hard rock. After Hendrix's tragic death, and of Jim Morrison's death (The Doors)new hard rock bands were made. One who turned out to be the promising successor to Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, and as we know that band is Led Zeppelin baby!
Another great band was Queen which was very different from the other bands, but it had a very talented singer who was known has Freddie Mercury, and guitarist Brian May.., the best rock band in my opinion. The late 60s, and the late 70s, 80s and up to the mid 90s were the Golden Age of this genere, which was split by the First Dark Age of Rock int he mid 70s (disco) and the Second (Pop, Hip hop, rap, alterntive, ect), and hopefully Hard Rock will prevail, but nobody can be as good as the orginal. By the way the black people practicually give us rock, and the British had an entirely different form of Rock. Blacks went on to make Soul Music, Funk, and later Rap, though i'm not a great lover of Rap, (apart from (Eminem)!



Oh and here are a few more to add to my list.

Queen, Foo Fighters, Nirvana, Marylin Manson, Greenday, REM, David bowie, Guns'n roses, Bob marly, , Beastie Boys, Black Sabbath, Eric Clapton, Aerosmith, Van Halen, White stripes



Definately NOT reality, that's for sure Lovebomb!

[Mike]

What on Earth attracted you to this board?

[Storm]

If only any of those people had the presence of Jenny Frost. She's gonna blow Rachel out of the water when she comes out with her seductive vocals.........

[klee]

I heard Jenny's drawing influence from some unusual places for her solo stuff. She's been really inspired by this artist, for example: -



Otherwise known as the corncrake.

PS tiddlywinks - this board is called PopJustice. Anyone who logs on here expecting Black Sabbath hagiography is going to be sorely disappointed.

[tiddlywinks]

Yup!

[Twixy]

Dear me.

I think Rachel is harmless enough, she's not ground breaking, she's okay.

[Mike]

Storm said:

If only any of those people had the presence of Jenny Frost. She's gonna blow Rachel out of the water when she comes out with her seductive vocals.........

Never a truer word spoken. We won't even be discussing Rachel when we have experienced the true dexterity of Jenny's voice.

[monsta]

tiddlywinks said:

Rachael, Victoria and all these other manufactured singers should all sod off!
Bring back real music, not tripe.

Sorry, Ms Thing, I can't be bothered reading what other gash you have festooned upon this board but I refuse that you categorise Victoria Beckham with that Lady-Penelope-With-Brown-Hair-Rachel Stevens. Posh at least has an opinion on everything and is never afraid to stand up for what she believes in. I'd imagine if Rachel was in the same situation with the Rebecca Whorefacecuntfuck Loos saga, she would just let the whole thing go. She has no identifiable personality. She is the cous cous of the pop world. Bland with no taste.

A mate of mine was at the pub once in the company of Rachel Stevens. She said she was a cunt. Thats good enough for me.

Furthermore, Rachel Stevens has never done a Mommie Dearest pastiche in one of her snoozeathon videos. I can see where Victoria is coming from with those wire coat hangers.

[si]

thisisnotatest said:

Never a truer word spoken. We won't even be discussing Rachel when we have experienced the true dexterity of Jenny's voice.

Are you two pulling a Nuts style secret codey stunt?

I don't get it!

[Steveweiser]

For someone with a below average album, she sure knows how to pick singles... there's far worse around than Rachel. An assclown she is most certainly not, all she's guilty of is being small of brain.

[Lovebomb]

tiddlywinks said:

A type of music which has evolved in the last 10 years, this type of music contains depth and thought and most of all talent. Not just screaming and loud guitars with a drum beat in the background, as most people presume, yes it has instruments, which is obviously much better than some girl singing over a beat which replays over and over throughout the song. Rock music is creative, imaginative and unpredictable.

Well we had the Rolling Stones, then came The Doors, Jimi Hendrix another pioneering black man who set the tone for the best rock of them all, hard rock. After Hendrix's tragic death, and of Jim Morrison's death (The Doors)new hard rock bands were made. One who turned out to be the promising successor to Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, and as we know that band is Led Zeppelin baby!
Another great band was Queen which was very different from the other bands, but it had a very talented singer who was known has Freddie Mercury, and guitarist Brian May.., the best rock band in my opinion. The late 60s, and the late 70s, 80s and up to the mid 90s were the Golden Age of this genere, which was split by the First Dark Age of Rock int he mid 70s (disco) and the Second (Pop, Hip hop, rap, alterntive, ect), and hopefully Hard Rock will prevail, but nobody can be as good as the orginal. By the way the black people practicually give us rock, and the British had an entirely different form of Rock. Blacks went on to make Soul Music, Funk, and later Rap, though i'm not a great lover of Rap, (apart from (Eminem)!



Oh and here are a few more to add to my list.

Queen, Foo Fighters, Nirvana, Marylin Manson, Greenday, REM, David bowie, Guns'n roses, Bob marly, , Beastie Boys, Black Sabbath, Eric Clapton, Aerosmith, Van Halen, White stripes



Definately NOT reality, that's for sure Lovebomb!

See all you've done there is given a extremly sinplistic history of music of the past thirty or so years without actually defining what 'real music' is. And I'm not sure (maybe I did) but I can't remember questioning the influence of black culture on todays music scene.

As far as I'm concerned all music is real music, be it creative or unoriginal, exciting or boring, intelligent or dumb, good or bad, Cheeky Girls or Mozart and whether I like it or not.

All that matters to me is what I get out of it and different music offers different things with varying levels of success. Some music makes me think, some music makes me wanna not think and just let go and dance and sing along and enjoy myself (Some Girls being the example), some makes me sad, some makes me happy, some impresses me with how 'creative, imaginative and unpredictable' it is and some makes me think 'what a load of crap'...the list goes on.

As for these manufactured acts you go on about, my best mate has three young kids and these are the kind of popstars they love. They adore Rachel (and they adore Hilary Duff even more) because they are simple and the tunes are catchy, they're not interested in stuff like Coldplay, it isn't accesible to them. It's like when I was young and loved all the PWL stuff, most those acts you've mentioned went totally over my head because they are more sophistacated and mature and it's only as I got older did I start to understand and appreciate them. The PWL stuff might of been 'manufactured' (whatever that means) simple , unoriginal, kiddie or whatever but during those years it was the stuff that meant the most to me. And these simple songs about splitting up with boyfriends/girlfriends and kissing or dancing to music or whatever are still sung today because they do connect and are in touch with the audience they're aiming for. Trivial they may be but triviality is a big part of life especially the teeny bopper audience they go for. And as for songs with simple repetitive beats, well they're often the best to dance to which is what some music is meant to make you want to do.

I'm not disputing what all those acts you've mentioned have to offer, I probably would agree with you on most but to disregard what these so called 'manufacted' acts can offer to certain audiences in their own way strikes me as incredibly ignorent and narrow minded.

As far as I'm concerned music is for everyone and when people talk about 'real music' to me it seems egotistical and almost fascist, as if you have to conform to a certain set of rules before it's valid which to me goes against what music should be about.

[dulcinea]

I agree that the concept of "real" music rather misses the point. Music performs a function. It can stir the emotions, allow a reconnection to a memory, or simply provide something entertaining to dance, or do the dusting, to. All are perfectly valid.

And they can change over time. Mozart was regarded as a provider of background music to gossip over by many of his contemporaries, and I certainly remember my mother dusting to Jimi.

The reason I have a problem with Rachel, and others like her - is that I have the impression that the important factor for the artist here, is being famous, to have celebrity, rather than producing music. It is perfectly possible to take a pride in and produce music to dust or bop to with conviction.

Ms Stevens, for me, appears to lack that conviction.

[Mike]

Steveweiser said:

For someone with a below average album, she sure knows how to pick singles

Don't you mean she knows how to decide there aren't any and record new ones?

Si, I'm a relative newbie and have no idea about the Nuts thing (what was that anyway?). However, I stand firm about Jenny Frost. Her artistic potential is boundless, as we shall see in due course.

[gabbygoo]

And has anyone heard her sing live? Can she actually sing?

I was slaughtered for this comment over on the main board. Told all that dancing action meant she couldn't sing live

Excuse me but didn't Madonna (the Queen of Pop) sing live and dance (and simulate sex) at the same time!

[Dudie]

While not being a great fan I do believe she can and has been known to sing live. It's nothing to do with the dancing she just exercises her right under the Geneva Convention and chooses not to, which is her prerogative as a 19 management singer and is fair enough.

As for the reality / real debate. After getting through my 'pretentious, Harry Enfield Kevin/ no-one takes me seriously, teenage angst phase where music wasn't music unless it left me asking where the nearest razor-blade shop was, now I think, what the fuck, this is fun/fab/cheery music and I like it.

[tiddlywinks]

gabbygoo said:

And has anyone heard her sing live? Can she actually sing?

I was slaughtered for this comment over on the main board. Told all that dancing action meant she couldn't sing live

Excuse me but didn't Madonna (the Queen of Pop) sing live and dance (and simulate sex) at the same time!

Now you're talking....Madonna is 100 per cent class and is worthy of the tag QUEEN OF POP. She certainly CAN sing AND dance at the same time. Oh and she ain't reality, Madonna earned her title the hard way.



Now there is POP and there is pop pap!