Lovebomb
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Post by Lovebomb on Jun 26, 2004 18:35:07 GMT -5
I know there's always been a bit of a pretentious twat in the fellow ever since his Pop Idol days but I'm sorry that performance with James Brown was the twattiest, most self indulgent thing I've seen in my life (and I've seen Justin Timberlake beat-box).
My god he's even beating Mr Timberlake on the 'believing own hype' front.
I don't care for James Brown much but the minute Will stepped on he suddenly didn't seem that bad.
It was dreadful, I could barely watch (my brother actually couldn't, he had to leave the room and be called back in when it finished.)
I feel bad for posting on here 'cause I vowed I never would it just seems a bit of a pointless and nasty board (and I generally like everyone or at the very least am indiiferent) but that performance pushed me over the edge. And better to vent it here than to keep it pent up 'cause if I did and I ever met Will Young I'd feel compelled to punch the self-absorbed wanker.
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Raqael
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Post by Raqael on Jun 27, 2004 2:56:00 GMT -5
Can someone lock this thread? Just joking.
You can think what you want, but there's a lot of Will fans here, including myself, you would disagree completely with you.
Luv Rachael xxx
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Post by MilkMonitor on Jun 27, 2004 3:10:59 GMT -5
Aww Will is lovely and it's so good to see him doing as well as he is.
I do remember reading an interview with a certain Mr. Chipping of Orlando who said Will's second album would bomb and Gareth would reign supreme. As it happens, it was the opposite.
The point is, nobody really believed Will was the rightful winner, especially when Gareth was getting all the attention. Not only has he proved why he should have won but he's also broken free of the Pop Idol tag and that should be applauded.
As for the pretentious wanker business, he's never come across that way to me. I didn't see the Olympic Torch concert, though. The only crap thing about Will Young is that he is one of the most rubbish gays in the land. Beverley Knight, I ask you.
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flufff
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Post by flufff on Jun 27, 2004 3:12:59 GMT -5
I know a few Will fans in the real would who cringed their way through it, so your numbers may be reduced this time round. I'm so sad I missed it, because the descriptions I've been hearing are magnificent. I thought the whole ceremony sounded like a big pile of wank. Little did I know it would become such a talking point.
Does anyone know where I can see this?
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Dudie
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Post by Dudie on Jun 27, 2004 3:21:09 GMT -5
I know a few Will fans in the real would who cringed their way through it, so your numbers may be reduced this time round. I'm so sad I missed it, because the descriptions I've been hearing are magnificent. I thought the whole ceremony sounded like a big pile of wank. Little did I know it would become such a talking point. Does anyone know where I can see this? The performance with James Brown was brilliantly embarrassing. I loved it, from behind the settee. Yes, it was that bad. Milk Monitor, why oh why do you have to bring up the Gareth thing? It was hardly Gareth's fault that he lost was it? It's so over. They are both talented and successful in different ways. Why can't it be left at that?
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Post by MilkMonitor on Jun 27, 2004 5:10:20 GMT -5
Milk Monitor, why oh why do you have to bring up the Gareth thing? It was hardly Gareth's fault that he lost was it? It's so over. They are both talented and successful in different ways. Why can't it be left at that? Where did I say that...? I merely said Will should be congratulated for stepping out of Gareth's shadow and becoming more successful.
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Post by PoshGurung on Jun 27, 2004 5:15:23 GMT -5
My god he's even beating Mr Timberlake on the 'believing own hype' front. But Justin did release 'Cry me a River' and 'Like I love you': two era-defining singles consecutively (not open to debate).
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Post by Control on Jun 27, 2004 5:36:12 GMT -5
What exactly was so embarrasing about the performance? I didn't see it.
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elmsyrup
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Post by elmsyrup on Jun 27, 2004 7:01:48 GMT -5
I like Will a lot. It was a DREADFUL performance. He just kept warbling "James Brown, James Brown ooargh Jaaames Bruhoown". Shudder. After a while Mr Brown started repaying the favour "Will Young y'all" and he wasn't much better, but I never liked him in the first place.
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Post by dulcinea on Jun 27, 2004 7:29:35 GMT -5
Could this board be more Pop! I am horrified to hear any disrespect being paid to Mr Brown - one of the truly great singers and performers of our time.
I saw the performance live and most of it was fine. The part being referred to falls within a convention in soul. Given Will's recent arrival in the industry it was not surprising that he chose those vocals. What came before and after however,was surprisingly good. I am increasingly impressed with Will, and await his next offering with some anticipation.
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Post by gabbygoo on Jun 27, 2004 7:36:13 GMT -5
I saw Will live yesterday and am converted and thought he was amazing.
He didn't look like a clown to where I was standing which was 5 rows back from the stage
I cannot believe people are saying he made them cringe.
It was live entertainment at its best. Maybe that was lost on the small screen
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Lovebomb
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Post by Lovebomb on Jun 27, 2004 7:36:41 GMT -5
But Justin did release 'Cry me a River' and 'Like I love you': two era-defining singles consecutively (not open to debate). Cry Me A River might have been at a push, Like I Love You certainly wasn't era defining it was just good (though got tired very quickly). But the again so was I Should Be So Lucky (even more so than either of those songs and that really isn't open for debate) but I didn't see Kylie 12 or so months later claiming she was an 'artist' and thinking that her fans wanted to see improv jazz sessions. And in regards to Will being a twat what's Gareth got to do with anything? So what his second albums done better and yeah well done he's achieved something, so has everyone else on this clowns board. The guy is arrogent (despite his efforts at false modesty) and that performance just displayed it. Infact the only thing I disagree on is the 'rubbish gay' business. What exactly is a good gay and if there are rubbish gays are there rubbish indians, rubbish black people , rubbish frenchmen, rubbish women etc.. just because they don't fit the stereotypical image of what they should be?
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jun 27, 2004 7:50:52 GMT -5
Isn't every pop star 'arrogant' to some extent? If you're going to put your music out there and demand people listen to it, you yourself have to believe that you're talented. If Will believes himself to be a talented artist, the fact that he beat thousands of others to win Pop Idol and subsequently transcended this origin by releasing a second album which comfortably outperformed the first (all this despite not fitting into any traditional pop star mould) then surely his self-belief is justified. Don't you think?
The improv jazz sessions may be a bit wanky and tedious, but it's part of who Will is and what he wants to do musically. As for Kylie, by her own admission she was barely allowed to visit the loo without asking PWL first in that era, so career-defining songs or no, it's not the best comparison. I'm a fan of hers (and particularly of Body Language) but I'm still none the wiser as to who she is musically.
I am, however, 100% with you on the Gareth comparisons (utterly obsolete) and the 'rubbish gay' thing. Is he supposed to start dressing like George Michael circa 1984 and covering It's Raining Men or what?
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Lovebomb
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Post by Lovebomb on Jun 27, 2004 8:17:25 GMT -5
Isn't every pop star 'arrogant' to some extent? If you're going to put your music out there and demand people listen to it, you yourself have to believe that you're talented. If Will believes himself to be a talented artist, the fact that he beat thousands of others to win Pop Idol and subsequently transcended this origin by releasing a second album which comfortably outperformed the first (all this despite not fitting into any traditional pop star mould) then surely his self-belief is justified. Don't you think? Yeah, he's still an arrogent wanker. Just like Chris Martin, Robbie Williams and a thousand other acts who might be talented but their self-belief has turned into something unattractive. There's a fine line between self-belief and arrogance. And Will is arrogant and pretentious and it was there even before he'd won Pop Idol. And nothing will ever change my mind that his appearance at the concert was the prattiest, twattiest, self indulgent, up-himselfmanship of the highest proportions. And I agree there is an arrogance in putting music out and wanting everyone to listen but that goes for everyone listed on this board where every criticism stems basically stems down to 'How dare they be arrogant enough to think they were talented enough to think they could put out music.' Sorry to bring up Gareth but are you gonna use that argument for him? Because it applies as well as to Holly Valance and countless other. The only difference is you don't like them. Is it only acceptable to character assissinate those who supposedly are untalented or crap because those who fit under that catagory always suffer far worst name calling and personal attacks than those who don't despite the fact they might be (and most the time actually do appear to be) nicer people. Who was talking about Will? Well yes it is, Justin has gained his hype from three tracks produced by the Neptunes and Timbaland, Kylie gained hers popstar hype from a PWL produced track. But while Kylie seemed full aware of that fact, Justin appears to have the belief that he is now an 'artist' off the back of the hype created by those tracks. Fair enough Kylie and Justin might both be fantastic musicians for all we know but it wasn't that aspect which created their hype. And yes PWL might have kept Kylie on a very tight leash but I really doubt Justin is granted much more freedom from Jive with the money they have invested in him.
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Post by Control on Jun 27, 2004 9:26:00 GMT -5
Um, I just found a picture of the event and he looks somewhat excited in a certain department.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jun 27, 2004 10:23:02 GMT -5
Yeah, he's still an arrogent wanker. Just like Chris Martin, Robbie Williams and a thousand other acts who might be talented but their self-belief has turned into something unattractive. There's a fine line between self-belief and arrogance. And Will is arrogant and pretentious and it was there even before he'd won Pop Idol. And nothing will ever change my mind that his appearance at the concert was the prattiest, twattiest, self indulgent, up-himselfmanship of the highest proportions. We agree that there's a fine line between self-belief and arrogance. What we differ on is which side of it Will is on. I can't really comment on Pop Idol, having missed nearly all of it (I was living in France then) but the impression I've had of Will since is of someone who knows what he's doing and believes it's good. I don't think this equates to being arrogant and pretentious. I can speak only for myself, and I will say that though I may have criticised Gareth's musical ability (or lack thereof) I've never attempted to do likewise with his character. You can search this whole board for the entire time I've been here, and you'll find nothing to contradict that. Holly, on the other hand, I do consider arrogant and I don't think she comes across as a nice person at all. But I don't mention that without having something to back it up with, and I certainly don't consider it any reflection on her music. As it happens, I heard a Holly song the other night I actually liked. What I think of her, and what I think of her music, are entirely separate issues.
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Dudie
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Post by Dudie on Jun 27, 2004 10:39:17 GMT -5
Just like to say that my comments were confined to a particular performance. i.e. the duet at the Olympic Torch Ceremony with James Brown which I found excruciatingly pretentious and embarrassing.
I've never thought that Will Young was arrogant during Pop Idol or after it but I thought he looked like he was in danger of believing his own publicity last night. The result was not good to put it mildly.
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Dudie
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Post by Dudie on Jun 27, 2004 10:50:20 GMT -5
Would like to add that, despite protesting about the old comparisons about Gareth having been dragged into a discussion about Will yet again, sod it, as an insider in the music industry, I haven't met a person who has worked with Gareth who hasn't got the utmost respect for his musicianship and his talent and I've heard nothing but praise for him. Will Young is one of those people. He's seemingly a very nice guy too.
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Lovebomb
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Post by Lovebomb on Jun 27, 2004 10:53:19 GMT -5
We agree that there's a fine line between self-belief and arrogance. What we differ on is which side of it Will is on. I can't really comment on Pop Idol, having missed nearly all of it (I was living in France then) but the impression I've had of Will since is of someone who knows what he's doing and believes it's good. I don't think this equates to being arrogant and pretentious. Oooohhh he soooo is it's painful. He's worse than Robbie, at least he doesn't try to hide it under false modesty. Ever since his whole outburst to Simon Cowell I've thought he was and that particular incident was arrogance of the highest order. The whole 'I'm standing up for everyone who's being nastily critisised by you'. Amazing how it only came out when he was critisised himself and would he have ever made comment if Simon had gushed over him? I doubt it! It was no different to all those other bad loser idol contestants who got arsy when the judges didn't like, just cleverly worded. I wasn't actually saying you do, I said that the 'Well there has to be arrogance for them to be in this biz' you used could be used for many an act including Gareth and yet you choose to use it for Will but stay quiet for Gareth because you like one and not the other. Though to be fair when anyone takes part in threads which do shamelessy and openly attack someone on a personal level even if you don't do it yourself it still reinforces and supports such actions. Like my feelings about Will. And yet with him you brought his ability into my opinions of his character.
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FeelsLikeSex
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Post by FeelsLikeSex on Jun 27, 2004 11:01:11 GMT -5
Before I start can I just say I am a fan of Will and his music but I have to agree - he is arrogant and pretentious. I've only began to notice it in the past few months but it is something that I am increasingly aware of the more times I see him on TV. Ok, we all know he's a good singer but is it really necessary for him to perfrom his very own Soul Sessions every time he's CD:UK, complete with 'oh oh oh oh, please!' every other line? It's just so out of place. The Olympic thing yesterday, I had to leave the room. It was so uncomfortable to watch.
Another thing bugging me is his tour. Why, when he's got thousands upon thousands of fans, would he choose to play a handful of dates in theatres that hold only a couple of hundred people in? I'm not writing this a bitter fan who didn't get the chance to go because I was there and was, as Simpn Cowell might say, distinctly unimpressed. All this trying to turn himself into a serious jazz artist is laughable - why's he trying to airbrush Pop Idol out of his past for, if it wasn't for that competition he'd still be auditioning for Popstars, Fame Academy - the lot. He tries to pretend he's not into pop music and only entered Pop Idol 'as a laugh', but it's obvious he was fame hungry from the start; why else would he audition for Richard and Judy's boyband competition years ago?
I can't articulate what I want to say very well with a hangover but basically he's starting to believe his own hype - and I never thought I'd ever say that seeing as I was a massive fan of his only months ago.
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Lovebomb
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Post by Lovebomb on Jun 27, 2004 14:18:13 GMT -5
. He tries to pretend he's not into pop music and only entered Pop Idol 'as a laugh', but it's obvious he was fame hungry from the start; why else would he audition for Richard and Judy's boyband competition years ago? It's funny my brother pointed out to me last night that whenever Will performs on a tv show theres almost always that moment during the show where Will'll be standing with the presenter or he'll just walk on for no seemingly apparent reason other than so the presenter can go 'It's Will Young everybody!' And yes last night Rod Stewart (I think) was being interviewed and who should walk on from the sidelines?....'It's Will Young everybody'. He loves it!!! Not that that's a bad thing mind you, good on him, it just everyone goes on about how Will isn't interested in all that glamour, pazazz and fame malarky when he clearly is.
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Post by MilkMonitor on Jun 27, 2004 15:03:03 GMT -5
Christ on a fucking bike, I mentioned the Gareth thing because I think it's good that he emerged from his shadow, I don't fucking care if you think that's obsolete, it's just as relevant as Robbie becoming arguably more successful than Take That were or Michael Jackson emerging from the shadow of the Jackson 5 to become much bigger. You're all acting as if I'm having a dig at Gareth, when all I'm saying is I think Will's turnaround from winner-but-may-as-well-have-come-second was quite brilliant, especially when you remember how popular Gareth was.
And he's (or was, rather) a rubbish gay because he said he wanted to kiss Beverley Knight under the mistletoe, I thought that was common knowledge and I'm certainly not the only person on here to refer to Will as a rubbish gay. You lot added the 'because he doesn't fit the stereotype' bit, so don't try and imply I meant anything else.
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Lovebomb
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Post by Lovebomb on Jun 27, 2004 15:47:57 GMT -5
And he's (or was, rather) a rubbish gay because he said he wanted to kiss Beverley Knight under the mistletoe, I thought that was common knowledge and I'm certainly not the only person on here to refer to Will as a rubbish gay. You lot added the 'because he doesn't fit the stereotype' bit, so don't try and imply I meant anything else. Come off it Will isn't known as a rubbish gay solely because he said he wanted to kiss Beverley Knight, maybe it started that way but it did snowball into something else, I've heard various reasons for why he is a rubbish gay and some really piss me off. And I know you're not the only one who calls him it I was referring in general to the title 'rubbish gay' which has become synonymous with Will. I know with most it's just a bit of a joke (like the kissing Beverley Knight stuff), what does peeve me though is there are those who have taken the title seriously and say things like 'I wish he'd sing songs mentioning boys'. As if when he does that he will be a proper gay.
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Post by Stephwillfan on Jun 28, 2004 0:24:06 GMT -5
Well, I watched the Olympic Torch concert on TV and I thought Will and James Brown were brilliant. For me, it was all about the feel of the music; the vibe between the two of them.
JB was very generous with Will, and Will had nothing but respect for JB.
I can appreciate that not everyone will like this performance, but I did, I think the crowd did, and the people I have spoken to that were there did too. You can't please everyone though.
As for Will being arrogant, that I don't agree with. I have seen Will live several times, the most recent at the Liverpool Empire on the 17th of this month. He puts everything into his performances, and always appears almost humble. If he is growing in confidence, it is no wonder. Is that the same as arrogance? I don't think so.
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flufff
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Post by flufff on Jun 28, 2004 1:37:22 GMT -5
Could this board be more Pop! No. This is the Popjustice message boards. That's why it's here and why we are here. Fans of clever, grown-up jazz/funk/soul with credibility for superior people will be more at home elsewhere. I am horrified to hear any disrespect being paid to Mr Brown - one of the truly great singers and performers of our time. The part being referred to falls within a convention in soul. A truly great singer who acts like an idiot because convention dictates it. Marvellous.
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Post by kurtwild on Jun 28, 2004 3:01:17 GMT -5
ha ha ha! It looks likee james Brown is laughing at young Willy's stoopid hat and ludicrous top! Tee hee!!
Lovebomb - I couldnt agree with you more. I've hated Will ever since his Pop Idol outburst. "I say! How can you call that average?" (er, coz it was a rubbish, pretentious cover of a clapped-out song).
No one mentions his brother and the time he battered that asylum seeker when off his box onn absinthe.
Or the fact that the "Will shags a stripper" story is true - he just denied.
He's really unbelievably up his own arse for someone who's basically a freaky looking karaoke singer.
And whats this about him being a rubbish gay? He's got more mince than Brian Dowling...
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Post by Stephwillfan on Jun 28, 2004 3:29:49 GMT -5
Kurtwild, you are patently not a Will fan then?
What the hell has whatever his brother has or has not done to do with Will?
Also, what does it matter who Will does or does not shag?
So you've hated him from the very beginning, big deal. I bet Will is worried about you. Meanwhile the million and a half people that bought his latest album are enjoying his music.
(p.s. you wouldn't be a fan of Kurt-I-can-sing-like-Bono-and-I-am-the-world-idol (big deal) would you?)
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Post by kurtwild on Jun 28, 2004 3:56:34 GMT -5
Kurtwild, you are patently not a Will fan then? What the hell has whatever his brother has or has not done to do with Will? Also, what does it matter who Will does or does not shag? Well, if he's got anything in common with his brother maybe Will hates reugees too? That's terrible! And it just makes Will look more of a cunt if he's saying in interviews the whole time "boo hoo, I can't find a boyfriend, please still like me old ladies!" when in reality he's knocking off a gay go go dancer.
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Post by Stephwillfan on Jun 28, 2004 7:11:57 GMT -5
Well, if he's got anything in common with his brother maybe Will hates reugees too? That's terrible! And it just makes Will look more of a cunt if he's saying in interviews the whole time "boo hoo, I can't find a boyfriend, please still like me old ladies!" when in reality he's knocking off a gay go go dancer. As I understand it the case against Will's brother has still not been settled, so to date he is guilty of nothing. Anyway, as I said before, whatever Will's brother does, or feels etc etc is nothing to do with Will. Are you responsible for your brothers/sisters/cousins etc actions? Of course not. You seem to have made up your mind about it anyway. You must know all of the facts. As for the shagging thing and Will, its still Will's private business, which is why he chooses to say he has no boyfriend. What is it to anyone if he has one or not?
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Post by kurtwild on Jun 28, 2004 8:11:27 GMT -5
Because he's lying his head off! And it isn't a little white lie is it? I can understand how some popstrels will say they aren't going out with anyone when they are just to preserve their privacy.
But in Will's case it goes beyond that. He's got all these housewives thinking he's a cuddly fluffly widdle poofter when in reality he's out shagging ho-bag male strippaz.
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